An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
Investing is never easy. You can put your buyer’s mind at ease by offering some type of money-back guarantee, a free trial, or another risk-free way to test drive your services.
As a part of my series about how to be great at closing sales without seeming pushy, obnoxious, or salesy, I had the pleasure of interviewing Megan Smyth.
Megan Smyth is a copywriter for impact-driven entrepreneurs, using her background in psychology and research to craft high-converting sales copy. After realizing three years into her pre-med degree that she was chasing someone else’s idea of success, she decided to start her own business–one that allowed her to make her own rules, empower other women, and most importantly, required zero knowledge of organic chemistry.
Thank you for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to learn a bit more about you. Can you tell us the “backstory” about what brought you to this career path?
Like most entrepreneurs, it’s been a long and winding road! I never intended to work in sales or marketing. My degree is actually in Health Science and I always planned on becoming a doctor. While I was still in school, I started copywriting on the side just for fun, and I absolutely fell in love with it.
I’ve always loved writing, but it turns out copywriting also involves a fair bit of science and research. All those neuroscience classes I sat through came in handy for mastering conversion strategies. Eventually, I left my day job in medical research to pursue copywriting full-time, and I haven’t looked back since.
Can you share with our readers the most interesting or amusing story that occurred to you in your career so far? Can you share the lesson or takeaway you took out of that story?
I still remember the very first sales call I took as a new business owner. I was so nervous, I wrote out a list of potential questions the prospect could ask me and prepared all these scripted answers. Of course, once I got on the call I realized that had pretty much been a waste of time.
Instead, we just started talking like two friends meeting up. We got to know each other, I asked a few questions about the work she needed, and then quoted her a rate that at the time, felt way out of my comfort zone. Her response: “Great! Where do I sign?”
The lesson I took away from that experience is that sales doesn’t need to be stressful or uncomfortable. It’s really just a conversation between two people, trying to see if there’s a fit or not. If there is, great–and if not, it’s not the end of the world.
Are you working on any exciting new projects now? How do you think that will help people?
I’m excited to be working on my first digital product, a series of sales email templates. So many business owners want to get started with email marketing but feel intimidated and don’t know where to start. My hope is that these templates (which will be fully customizable), will help entrepreneurs see how easy email marketing can be.
I want to go a step beyond the typical fill-in-the-blank style templates and explain how each email works and why. Once business owners get over that initial knowledge barrier, email can be a huge money-maker for their business. Not to mention it’s a ton of fun!
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
The person I’m most grateful for is my older sister, Alanna. She’s been my biggest supporter from day one. When I announced I was no longer applying to med school and was instead going to write copy for strangers on the internet, she took it all in stride! She never once doubted I would be successful (even when I wasn’t so sure myself).
I’m now happy to report that not only is the business successful, but I’ve been able to bring my sister on board as well! She’s been an incredible support throughout every stage.
For the benefit of our readers, can you tell us a bit why you are an authority on the topic of sales?
As I mentioned earlier, I worked in the medical field for most of my life, and my approach to sales is very much informed by psychology and neuroscience. As a copywriter, I’ve helped my clients sell out their offers through strategic, research-backed email campaigns, sales pages, and website copy. I’ve worked with everyone from 7-figure business coaches to one of the world’s leading outbound sales companies.
For me, it’s not about being designated an “authority”, but being a continuous student of sales. There’s always something new to learn. What I try to do through my online platform is invite my audience along with me on that journey.
Ok. Thanks for all that. Let’s now jump to the main core of our interview. As you know, nearly any business a person will enter, will involve some form of sales. At the same time, most people have never received any formal education about how to be effective at selling. Why do you think our education system teaches nearly every other arcane subject, but sales, one of the most useful and versatile topics, is totally ignored?
That’s an interesting question. In all fairness, it’s a difficult subject to teach. You can teach someone how to cold call or give them an email script to copy and paste, but without understanding the psychological side of things, that kind of training won’t get you very far.
To be successful in sales, you need to understand how people think and how they make decisions. Some of that can be learned from a textbook, but a lot of it is learned on the job, once you get out there and start talking to people–and more importantly, start listening. Learn to truly listen and you can be successful in any field.
This discussion, entitled, “How To Be Great At Sales Without Seeming Salesy”, is making an assumption that seeming salesy or pushy is something to be avoided. Do you agree with this assumption? Whether yes, or no, can you articulate why you feel the way you do?
Pushiness won’t get you anywhere. Modern buyers are fed up with those old tactics, and it’s not hard to see why. We’re inundated with ads all day long, from social media to our email, TV, and everywhere in between. At a certain point, you start tuning it all out. So not only are those pushy ad campaigns annoying, but they’re also ineffective.
No one wants to be sold to. They don’t care about the features and benefits of your product. What people want is to feel seen, heard, and understood, in a world where that type of connection is increasingly rare. Businesses that understand this will be miles ahead of the competition.
The other factor to consider is that today’s buyers do a lot of research before they make a purchasing decision. They ask their friends for recommendations and read third-party review sites. They aren’t looking to be sold to–they’re looking for the information they need to make an informed decision.
As a salesperson, your job isn’t to convince someone to buy from you. Your job is to give them the information they need, make a compelling argument for your solution, and then step back and let the prospect make their own decision. It may feel scary at first, but in the long run, it’s far more effective.
The seven stages of a sales cycle are usually broken down to versions of Prospecting, Preparation, Approach, Presentation, Handling objections, Closing, and Follow-up. Which stage do you feel that you are best at? What is your unique approach, your “secret sauce”, to that particular skill? Can you explain or give a story?
As a sales copywriter, it’s my job to close the deal. The copy I write, whether in an email or on a sales page, needs to inspire action (usually to click that “Buy Now” button).
Ironically, my favorite approach for this is to tap into the cost of inaction. What’s at stake for them if they don’t buy? What if nothing changes and life/business go on as usual, while that same problem hangs over their head? Often, the idea of things staying the same is enough to provoke people into action.
Lead generation, or prospecting, is one of the basic steps of the sales cycle. Obviously, every industry will be different, but can you share some of the fundamental strategies you use to generate good, qualified leads?
Lead generation, like every part of the sales process, is a conversation. So many people get caught up in pitching or qualifying the prospect that they forget there’s a human being on the other side of the screen. Instead, focus on building relationships and starting a conversation. Let the rest unfold naturally from there.
In my opinion, true cold pitches are rarely effective. You need to work to earn that pitch. Start with research, and make an effort to understand the prospect’s situation. Then look for ways you can provide value. Maybe you have a free resource to share, or you came across an article they would find interesting.
Don’t do it with the intention of asking for a sale–just genuinely try to be of service (people can tell the difference). Over time you can build a great relationship this way, and when the prospect starts looking for a solution, you’ll be the first person that comes to mind.
In my experience, I think the final stages of Handling Objections, Closing, and Follow-up, are the most difficult parts for many people. Why do you think ‘Handling Objections’ is so hard for people? What would you recommend for one to do, to be better at ‘Handling Objections’?
Handling objections is an underrated part of the sales process, and it’s one that commonly gets ignored in written sales copy. People don’t like to talk about objections because they’re afraid of planting those ideas in the buyer’s mind, but in reality, it’s always better to get those things out in the open.
Before you can do that, you need to know what those specific objections are. Do some market research, interview your existing clients, and think back on past sales interactions. The two most common objections are time and money, so be ready to counter those.
For money objections, talk about the potential ROI, or use a money-back guarantee to reduce the financial risk. “Not the right time” is a bit more difficult. In that scenario, what you need to do is shift the prospect’s beliefs to make them understand there’s never a perfect time to invest, but they shouldn’t let that hold them back from taking action.
Second, you need to be proactive about it. Don’t wait for the client to bring their objections up. If there’s a cheaper competitor option out there, don’t shy away from that–explain the extra value your company provides and why you’re worth the money.
Lastly, remember not to push. Your goal shouldn’t be to close the sale no matter what, but to help the prospect see the value in your offer and then make the best decision for them.
‘Closing’ is of course the proverbial Holy Grail. Can you suggest 5 things one can do to successfully close a sale without being perceived as pushy? If you can, please share a story or example, ideally from your experience, for each.
- Reduce the risk.
Investing is never easy. You can put your buyer’s mind at ease by offering some type of money-back guarantee, a free trial, or another risk-free way to test drive your services.
One method I’ve found really effective is to remind the prospect of payment plan options. For example, your product isn’t $5000, it’s 10 monthly payments of $500. It’s a simple switch, but breaking it down this way makes it seem much more affordable.
2. Make it time-sensitive.
Urgency is a great sales tool. Put an expiry date on your proposal, use a countdown timer in your email, or send a last-chance text message. There’s nothing like a disappearing deal to inspire those last-minute buyers!
3. Scarcity.
Many of my clients have online courses, which they advertise as having limited spots. I always encourage them to take this one step further and specify how many spots are available. 10? 20? 100? Putting a tangible number on it makes it more real. Those spots could reasonably fill up, which inspires prospects to take action before they miss out.
4. Get buy-in on the price.
The proposal should NOT be the first time your prospect is hearing your pricing. Money is the biggest objection for most buyers, and if you avoid this discussion you’re shooting yourself in the foot.
Instead, confidently tell the prospect your price (ideally face-to-face or on a video call), then ask, “How does that sound to you?”. By putting the ball in their court, they can either accept your rate or start the negotiation process.
5. Use future pacing
This is a marketing technique where you use words to paint a picture of what the prospect’s future will look like with and without the product.
For example, a working mom sits at home debating whether to take the leap and invest in a course that will teach her how to work online as a virtual assistant. She’s burned out from the corporate world and tired of missing time with her family.
If she buys the course, a year from now she could have a successful online business. She could work from home on her own schedule. She would have the freedom to work from anywhere, take vacations without requesting time off, and spend more time with her kids. All of that is waiting for her on the other side of this course. As the salesperson, it’s your job to paint that picture.
Although I use this technique in written copy, you can also use it on a sales call. Ask the prospect what they’re hoping to get out of their purchase then let their imagination take over. This is especially useful if the prospect is sitting on the fence, or they’re hesitating to take action and need that final nudge.
Finally, what are your thoughts about ‘Follow up’? Many businesses get leads who might be interested but things never seem to close. What are some good tips for a business leader to successfully follow up and bring things to a conclusion, without appearing overly pushy or overeager?
Follow-ups are always hard. You don’t want to come across as pushy or desperate, but at the same time, you need to show some enthusiasm.
Like the rest of the sales process, it’s best to approach the follow-up with a service mindset. The prospect needs your solution and it would be a disservice to them not to reach out. Chances are, your prospect isn’t ignoring you on purpose–so don’t take it personally.
Start by clearing the air and letting them know you’re not upset that they haven’t gotten back to you. A quick “Hey, life happens, no worries,” can go a long way. Then remind them what the next steps are if they’d like to move forward. Let them know you’re there to answer any questions.
If your offer is time sensitive or you have limited space on your calendar, make sure to mention that. Then reiterate that if now isn’t the right time or this isn’t a good fit for them, that’s okay too.
The last time I followed up with a prospect using this method, she actually thanked me for being so kind in my approach! She seemed genuinely taken aback by the lack of pushiness. This just goes to show that your approach can make all the difference, especially if the prospect is considering multiple options.
As you know there are so many modes of communication today. For example, In-person, phone calls, video calls, emails, and text messages. In your opinion, which of these communication methods should be avoided when attempting to close a sale or follow up? Which are the best ones? Can you explain or give a story?
The best and worst methods depend on who your buyer is and what kind of relationship you have. I’ve personally found voice notes to work well for follow-ups. It’s more personal than an email or text message, but still casual enough that they can listen to it on their own time.
Video calls are great for closing, because you can watch the other person’s reactions in real time and adjust your approach accordingly. Body language and tone of voice are so important in sales conversations, and you want to mirror the prospect’s behavior as much as possible. That’s difficult to do over email. Of course, if you can meet in person then that’s even better!
Ok, we are nearly done. Here is our final “meaty” question. You are a person of enormous influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the greatest amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger.
I want business owners, especially women, to understand that selling can be empowering. A lot of times, female entrepreneurs hesitate to ask for the sale. They don’t want to come off as pushy or aggressive. It feels selfish to ask for money.
If I could share one message with those women, it would be that sales are not only necessary to grow your business, but the money you make can be used as a tool for good. The more you grow your income, the more impact you can have in the world.
